Stewarts of Balquhidder

[douglaswilson_1]

Don' t know if my line shown below is in any way connected but here goes and hopefully it wil ring some bells ..

Robert Stewart, who married a Catharine Campbell on 30 December 1828 in Alloa, Clackmannan. He was recorded in 1841, 1851 and 1861 census in Alloa as being a maltsman and latterly millman born in Comrie, Perthshire abt 1798. Catharine was shown as being born in Killin.

Together they had the following children that I know of
Ann b. 9 Aug 1829, Alloa
Catherine b. 13 Dec 1831, Alloa (later married John Charles Cameron of
Redgorton in Alloa on 23 Dec 1864)
Margaret b abt 1834, Alloa
Susan b. abt 1839, Alloa
Alexander b. abt March 1841, Alloa
Janet b. abt 1844, Alloa


Robert died on 19 November 1862 in Drysdale Street, Alloa. This records his parents as John Stewart, Farmer and Anne Stewart.

Catharine died 24 November 1864 in Drysdale Street, Alloa. This records her parents as Alexander Campbell, labourer and Catharine m/s McAlpine? Both deaths were recorded by their youngest daughter Janet.

This led me onto Robert's birth record on 18 March 1798 in Comrie also did a search for his siblings and found the following
Daniel b. 3 Jun 1796
Duncan b. 20 jan 1800
John b. 27 July 1802
Alexander b. 26 Jan 1805
Margaret b. 14 Feb 1807
Alexr b. 11 Jan 1811

There is a location named but I am not sure what it says I think Ardvauch, but needs more research of the local area (could be earlier version of Ardoch?).

Their parents John and Ann Stewart were married in Comrie on 25 July 1795.

[Ryk]

Douglas

Welcome to the forum! Good to have a new member and especially good to have a new Dalveich Stewart! That's my own family! So, welcome cousin!

The location name you have transcribed as "Ardvauch" is actually "Ardveich", and in the case of Alexander's birth, it is shown even more specifically as "Wester Ardveich". (The handwriting is extremely hard to read and "Ardvauch" was a very reasonable guess.)

Ardveich is located on the north shore of Loch Earn and the farthest west end of Comrie parish, just east of the village of Lochearnhead in Perthshire, Scotland. The farmstead of Ardveich still exists today further up Glen Beich from Dalveich. Your family descend from the Stewarts of Dalveich, a bastard cadet branch of the Stewarts of Ardvorlich. You can find their information here:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~rykbrown/stewart_of_dalveich.htm

We have previously successfully identified the family of John and Ann Stewart (your family) as belonging to 3 Line - The Stewarts in Ardveich, Lochearnhead and Kichp. Go to the Dalveich page above and scroll down to "3 Line". I have temporarily marked your family in red to make it easier to find.

I received your OPR images via email and I will post these on the Dalveich page and add a link to your posting above so others can view the images as well.

You'll see on the Dalveich page that your ancestor, Robert, was the brother of Rev. Alexander Stewart, who was a notorious Free Kirk minister in Killin. However, prior to receiving your information above we had no information on Robert or his descendants.

You'll also find a tonne of further information on the Dalveich Stewarts on that page, including photos of Ardveich. If you have any questions about the Dalveich Stewarts or any further information to add about your own family please feel free to post here. And if we can help you in any way, please ask.

Cheers
Ryk
_________________
Ryk Brown
Descendant of the Stewarts of Dalveich (Ardvorlich)
Sliochd Iain Dubh Mhor

[douglaswilson_1]

Wow Cousin Ryk, many many thanks for this. It was such a lot to take in, that I forgot to reply to say a big thank you. Once I've had a chance to digest it, I will post again

[Ryk]

Douglas

Yes, it's a lot to absorb! You're not the first to suffer from being overwhelmed by new information.

In case it's not immediately obvious, you can now trace your ancestry back to Robert The Bruce. If you need help following the trail, just ask.

Do you have Catherine Campbell's birth information?

I note that Robert Stewart and Catherine Campbell appear at first glance to break the standard naming pattern for their children. However, upon closer inspection it is clear that they are simply missing a child. There should be a son named Robert born before Alexander. And there is a corresponding gap in the ages of the children. I would strongly suggest that there's another son out there for this family. I'd bet this week's paycheck that they had a son named Robert born about 1836 named Robert who died as a child prior to the 1841 census.

I also find it intriguing that there are no baptismal records for these children past 1831. Are the later pages missing from the Alloa OPR? Or would that suggest perhaps that they moved to a dissenting congregation? Have you checked the records of the other dissenting congregations in Alloa? Just some thoughts for your future research.

I have not yet finished my transcription of the Comrie OPR, so if you come across the entries for Daniel/Donald 1796, John 1802, Margaret 1807, Alexander 1811 and their father John 1765, if you could forward those to me I'd be very grateful. I fully expect they will all show the birth places as Ardveich or Wester Ardveich, but it would be nice to confirm that.

I look forward to chatting more with you about the Dalveich family.

Ryk
_________________
Ryk Brown
Descendant of the Stewarts of Dalveich (Ardvorlich)
Sliochd Iain Dubh Mhor

[Anne Danielson]

Firstly I'd like to say a big hello and welcome you Douglas to our forum, especially since you are researching our branch of the Stewarts.
I am a bit disorganised at the moment as we've been rearranging our computer room at home and I've got myself into a bit of a muddle but I've had a quick look at the information you have supplied and I reckon that your Robt. Stewart b. 18th March 1798 at Comrie is the nephew of my Alexander Stewart the Moss Laird.
I will draw up another chart as I need to see it all written down before I can get my head around it all and I'll be back in touch again soon.
Regards
Anne Danielson

[douglaswilson_1]

Hi Anne, thanks for the kind words, I'm not too far away in sunny Alloa. I have been back on Scotlandspeople the pay for view site, and downloaded the baptism record for John Stewart on 20 Oct 1765 as refered to in the online tree info. I will email it as an attachment to Ryk as I'm unsure how to post it on the forum. Anyway the text is as follows:

20th Oct - Donald Stewart and Catharine McLean in W. Ardveich had their lawful son baptised named John.

Further up on the same page was another entry for 1st August as follows:

James Stewart and Catharine McLean in W. Ardveich had their lawful son baptaised named James.

This shows that there were obvioulsy a more extended 'family' staying in the same place.

I have done a search on Scotlandspeople for the 'missing son' referred to without success, but will do some more digging.

Catharine Campbell was born abt 1807 in Killin, Perthshire to Alexander Campbell and Catharine McAlpine. I still have more digging to get more details on this.

Douglas

[Anne Danielson]

Hi Douglas,
I have just been on scotlands people as well looking for Robt. Stewart b.1781, brother of John b. 1765 on the census for 1841. He would be 60 years old by then and was living in Kintyre...no luck yet in finding him and he could even be dead by that time.
Anyway, the parents of your John b. 1765 were Donald (of the Kichp) Stewart and Catherine McLaren. My 4xgreat grandfather was John's brother Alexander and I have his death certificate which gives his parents names. As you will know the OPR can sometimes be hard to read or names are frequently misspelled. We'll see what Ryk thinks!
I know Alloa quite well as I lived there for a short time in the 1960's. I have a daughter who lives in Clackmannan and another daughter who lives in Tullibody, so I'm through there often.

Anne

[Jared]

Welcome, cousin Douglas. See now, what did I tell you when you posted your query at the Ancestry.com list the other day? Didn't I say if you popped over here, there might be someone who could help you?
_________________
Descendant of the Stewarts of Londonderry, N.H., a cadet branch of the Stewarts of Gartnafuaran

[douglaswilson_1]

Hi folks,
I stand corrected, looking again immediately after I posted I concur that the mother was a McLaren rather than a McLean., I am interested that there seemed to be two Catharine McLaren's giving birth in the same location, and who was the James Stewart? I think I'll back and lie in a darkened room to calm down...
Douglas[/i]

[Ryk]

Douglas

I have received your email with attachments. The one downside of this forum is that there is no way to attach anything to your post. However, you can upload your attachment somewhere else on the web and link to it here. For those who don't have their own webspace, Chuck and I can upload images and reports to the Stewart site and link to it here for you. We're happy to do that.

I have not had a chance to view your new images yet, but I'm excited by the new data you have posted above. It confirms the Ardveich connection. Not surprising, but reassuring!

If I read you right above, I sense that you are a little bewildered by the large number of Stewarts and McLarens occupying Ardveich (which today is nothing more than a standard farm). I am not a McLaren researcher, but I believe the following to be relatively accurate:

Ardveich has been the ancestral home of the McLaren clan since the 12th century. Prior to arrival of the Stewarts, the McLarens were the senior clan in Balquhidder parish and they long maintained the right of first entry into Balquhidder Kirk, even to the point of defending that right at swordpoint against the MacGregors on one occasion. However, the McLarens were very "clannish" and as the Normanesque land tenure laws began to be enacted in Scotland in the late middle ages, the Mclarens never registered their title. They believed Ardveich was theirs by right of blood and sword. Thus the lands officially became Crown property and became part of the land grant given to Walter Stewart, founder of our clan, in the 15th century. (I'm going from memory here so my details might be a little bit off.) I believe the senior landlord at the time was the Earl of Breadalbane, but I can't remember for sure. There was also a connection to Atholl.

In the mid-17th century the lands of Dalveich, Glenbeich, Ardveich, Carnlia and Leachin of Achraw were given to John Dubh Mhor Stewart, our ancestor. The Ardveich holding seems to have been the largest of the bunch and seems to have been a fairly substantial settlement at the time. Our Stewarts and the McLarens seem to have co-existed quite peacefully on the Ardveich lands. Judging by the large number of Stewart/McLaren marriages I think it's safe to refer to them as "very closely allied".

Thus, it is absolutely no surprise to find yet another Stewart/McLaren marriage here. I have one in my own branch too.

As to the large number of Stewarts, several with similar or same names, well, John Dubh Mhor is said to have had 8 sons, each of whom had a family. If we go by a rough average of 4 sons per family in that era then John probably had 32 grandsons and 120 odd great grandsons by the early 18th century. Since they customarily named their sons after their fathers and other family members then it's no surprise to see several names repeating. But it does make the genealogy a challenge!

I hope to get to your new images later today. The other ones you sent are now posted on the Dalveich page but I have not linked them to this thread yet.

Ryk
_________________
Ryk Brown
Descendant of the Stewarts of Dalveich (Ardvorlich)
Sliochd Iain Dubh Mhor

[Jared]

Thus, it is absolutely no surprise to find yet another Stewart/McLaren marriage here. I have one in my own branch too.

Not to derail the discussion onto a non-Ardvorlich branch, but there is also a Stewart/MacLaren marriage among the early Stewarts of Glenbuckie: Duncan Stewart, 3rd of Glenbuckie, married a daughter of MacLaren of Auchleskine, Chief of the MacLarens. Through the Gartnafuaran Stewarts, I have a descent from the Ardvorlich branch as well as the Glenbuckie branch, including these Glenbuckie Stewart/MacLaren marriage.

Which is just to illustrate further the "alliance" between the MacLarens and the Stewarts of Balquhidder to which Ryk refers.
_________________
Descendant of the Stewarts of Londonderry, N.H., a cadet branch of the Stewarts of Gartnafuaran

[charmian]

Well I can't resist adding to the information of the Stewart/MacLaren marriages.
My aunt Mary Stewart of Laggan married John MacLaren of Kirkton, Balquidder and they had one child, Helen Stewart MacLaren (died 1984). He was the chief of the MacLarens and then the chieftainship passed to my cousin Helen. Neither of these two were very interested in the history and it passed to Helen's cousin Donald MacLaren, a very flamboyant character who I remember shocking my prim presbyterian soul by coming up to me (I was about 10) after his son Donald Og's christening in Balquidder Church and asking me how much I had got out of the collection plate (instead of putting in)!!
Donald Og is now chief of the clan MacLaren.
Charmian of Laggan

[charmian]

Welcome Douglas Wilson,
It is terrifying how the links come through! I know Alloa very well as my godfather was Charles Buick of Netherby. He later bought Laggan farm as my uncle James was very much damaged in the 1914-1918 war and died very suddenly of a heart attack in 1937 when in the byre milking the cows. Sadly he was the last of the Stewarts to live in Laggan, but I spent a lot of my childhood there.
Charmian of Laggan