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Doug Cram's Ardveich Stewarts and kin in Renfrew, Ontario
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Bārd Beag
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:09 pm    Post subject: Stewarts of Campbelltown - Slightly OT Ryk Reply with quote

Ryk - Deep in the sea of Campbelltown Stewarts, was there a family that removed to what is now PEI by 1775? This family may have had some connection to the McConnachie family.

Regards,

Inez
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now let's get back to your Donald Dubh Stewart, the outlaw. Your James was the grandson of Donald Stewart in Kichp which means that Donald Dubh Stewart the outlaw could easily have been James' own grandfather.

However, Donald was a very common name among the Stewarts of Dalveich. In the McInytre account of Line 5 of the Stewarts of Dalveich we find the following:
Quote:
Another account of this branch comes from private correspondence from a descendant of Christina Margaret McIntyre (shown below). Christina received a letter from her aunt Margaret Stewart in 1908 which claimed that Margaret's mother (and Christina's grandmother), Mary, was born in 1798 in Stronvar as the daughter of James Stewart and Jean McDiarmid. It further claims that James was the youngest of three brothers, the others being John and Donald, and says that Donald had to flee the country due to his "wild behaviour".
Could this be a reference to your Donald Dubh Stewart the outlaw??? Hmmm....?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Deep in the sea of Campbelltown Stewarts, was there a family that removed to what is now PEI by 1775?


That's correct. I believe they descend from a Charles or Archibald. I can't remember. They are not related to our Stewarts. I believe they were from the Bute clan.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:32 pm    Post subject: Thank you - Filing the information away Reply with quote

Thank you Ryk. I'll have to tuck that away for further reference regarding a recent inquiry I had on another (MacKay) family in the Maritimes. The best link for the individual was a land transfer to the line from the Stewarts who likely returned to Scotland.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doug

Now we still have the outstanding issue of the book excerpt you sent me that claims that Margaret Stewart's grandparents were Duncan Stewart and Janet Ferguson. I just cannot make this work. But I don't feel able to dismiss it out of hand either. The account in the book sounds like it was taken down ca. 1900 from a living descendant. I suspect it first appeared in one of those county atlases that were published around the opening of the last century.

I'm going to ask you to do some homework on that reference. Can you track down the source used in that book to determine where that reference originated from?

My experience with references like this is that sometimes they get the facts essentially correct but in the wrong place -- that is, a little mixed up. So I'm wondering if one of your other Stewarts was descended from Duncan Stewart and Janet Ferguson and the reference has been mistakenly attached to Margaret Stewart.

Acknowledging that the evidence before us is conflicting, the majority of the evidence, and the more verifiable evidence indicates that John Stewart in Kirkline was the son of Donald Stewart in Edinample and not the son of Duncan Stewart and Janet Ferguson in Balmeanoch. Unless we can substantiate the reference from the quote you sent me, I'm inclined to believe that book is incorrect. But I'm not ready to give up on it until you can track down the original source.

Ryk
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
My mothers side of the family is primarily Stewarts and Mclarens. One of the Mclarens married a John R Stewart.

marriage record
Quote:
John STEWART, 27, Campbellton Scotland, Horton, s/o Robert STEWART & Mary McGREGOR, married Margaret McLAREN, 27, McNab, Horton, d/o James McLAREN & Catherine McLAREN, witn: Robert McLAREN of Horton & Robinson LYON of McNab, 18 Jan 1859


This is an interesting one. You're correct we haven't tracked this family yet. As I check the IGI I find the following family that would appear to be John's birth family:

Quote:
Robert STEWART & Mary MCGREGOR, married 14 JAN 1812 in Comrie, Perth, Scotland
1. Jean STEWART, bap 5 OCT 1813, Comrie, Perth, Scotland
2. Donald STEWART, bap 28 NOV 1815, Comrie, Perth, Scotland
3. Cathrine STEWART, bap 12 SEP 1817, Comrie, Perth, Scotland
4. Duncan STEWART, b/bap 16/18 SEP 1819, Southend, Argyll, Scotland
5. Alexander STEWART, bap 1 JUL 1822, Southend, Argyll, Scotland
6. Margaret STEWART, bap 6 JAN 1829, Southend, Argyll, Scotland

According to John's marriage record he was born ca. 1822 in Campbelltown. Such a birth could easily fit into the family above.

It would appear that this family originated in Comrie and then moved to the Campbelltown area just about 1818. I'm in the process of transcribing the Comrie OPR but I haven't got as far as 1813 yet, so I can't tell you where in Comrie this family came from, based on the above information.

However, onomastics would suggest that this Robert was probably bap. JUL 1781 in Wester Ardveich, Comrie as the son of Donald/Daniel STEWART and Catharine McLaren. If that rings a bell -- this Donald Stewart in Kichp/Kip mentioned in my earlier post, grandfather of your James Stewart and father-in-law of Peter McIntyre.

In fact, it would appear that Robert Stewart who married Mary McGregor is the Robert Stewart described in Stewarts of the South as being the shepherd to Capt. Duncan Stewart of Glenbuckie, factor to the Earl of Argyll in Campbelltown.

My goodness, Doug, you seem to be tying up a whole pile of loose ends for us here! Got any other Stewarts???? Very Happy

Looks like your parents were cousins!

Ryk

PS - Doug, I'd be grateful if you could send me a report on everything you have on your mother's Stewarts too. Thanks.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:21 pm    Post subject: John R Stewart and Margaret Mclaren's family Reply with quote

e. McLaren Margaret 1832-1878 L 26 c 19 Lochwinoch m.18 Jan 1859 Pakenham John R Stewart b Campbelltown Scotland 1832-Mar 19 1887 father Robert Stewart m. Mary McGregor buried Thompson hill Renfrew, John was the Town Engineer
i. STEWART, Catherine ‘Katie’ b. 1864 Renfrew Co, ON m. 8 Aug 1888 [Renfrew, Renfrew, ON] William Albert MATHESON b. 10 Oct 1863 Perth, Lanark, ON d. 7 Apr 1923 Fort William, Thunder Bay, ON [parents: Roderick MATHESON & Letitia McINTYRE] – Living Fort William, Algoma. ON in 1901. Living Fort William, Thunder Bay, ON in 1911. William was a barrister.
ii. Alexander 1856
iii. STEWART, Donald S. b. 1866 Renfrew Co, ON m. 22 May 1914 [Chatham, Kent, ON] Amy HARRIS b. 1881 Birmingham, ENG [parents: John HARRIS & Mary FLETCHER]
iv. STEWART, John James b. 1869 Renfrew Co, ON– Note: A John STEWART b. 18 Apr 1869 ON living Prince Albert. SK in 1901.
v. STEWART, Alexander Duncan b. Nov 1870 Renfrew Co, ON d. 23 Dec 1870 Renfrew, Renfrew, ON(2,14)
vi. STEWART, Alexander ‘Alex’ Duncan b. 3 Jan 1872 Renfrew, Renfrew, ON – Living Prince Albert, SK in 1901.
vii. STEWART, Elizabeth ‘Eliza’ Jane b. 1873 Renfrew, Renfrew, ON d. 21 Dec 1875 Renfrew, Renfrew, ON
viii. STEWART, Ann Isabella b. 15 Jan 1875 Renfrew, Renfrew, ON d. bef 1878 Renfrew, Renfrew, ON buried Thompson hill Renfrew
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:23 pm    Post subject: Duncan Stewart and Janet Ferguson refernce Reply with quote

I sent a note of to the books author......
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:35 pm    Post subject: files and McIntyre Reply with quote

Quote:
PS - Doug, I'd be grateful if you could send me a report on everything you have on your mother's Stewarts too. Thanks.


I sent you the Stewart file on September 8th. There is no Stewart relationship on my fathers side of the family.

In the Mcintyre family there was a family that lived close to Peter and John McIntyre in Scotland
She was a widow he maiden name was Rachael McGregor, She had four children, Duncan, Gregor, Mary and Catherine.

Duncan m Catherine ? and had 6 children. They also had a maid Margaret Stewart 22 born in Argyllshire
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:20 pm    Post subject: John Dubh Mhor Stewart Reply with quote

So let me see if I have this sorted out....So James Stewart married Margaret Stewart who came to Canada in the 1830's are actually both descendants of John Dubh Mhor Stewart?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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So let me see if I have this sorted out....So James Stewart married Margaret Stewart who came to Canada in the 1830's are actually both descendants of John Dubh Mhor Stewart?


Oops. Not quite. You have so many interconnected Stewart branches in your tree that I seem to have gotten some of them mixed up. Let me see if I can sort them out here....

John Robert Stewart who married Margaret McLaren in Pakenham (shown a few posts above) is descended from John Dubh Mhor Stewart. But I've lost track of how his family fits into your mother's tree. Can you remind me how they are related to the descendants of James and Margaret?

Also, Peter McIntyre (on the McIntyre stone) is descended from John Dubh Mhor Stewart via his mother Margaret Stewart.

And James Stewart who came to Horton in 1830 is also descended from John Dubh Mhor Stewart.

So is the John Stewart who married Marion Gilchrist and is mentioned on the McIntyre stone.

Peter McIntyre, John Robert Stewart, and James Stewart were all first cousins. They all descend from Donald Stewart in Ardveich and Kichp (who should not be confused with his contemporary Donald Stewart in Edinample, from whom you also descend.)

Let me try to map it out:

    Donald Stewart in Ardveich and Kichp (great-grandson of John Dubh Mhor Stewart of Dalveich) m 1776 to Catharine McLaren. (Yes, they began having children a wee bit early). They had the following children who were all born in Ardveich:
      1. John Stewart in Ardveich, b 1765, m 1795 to his cousin Ann Stewart (dtr of James Ross Stewart of Line 5 of the Ardveich Stewarts). They had several children including:
        4. John Stewart, b 1802. m 1829 to his first cousin Christian McIntyre (sister of Peter McIntyre) and moved to McNab Township in Renfrew. They had a son:
          1. John Stewart b 1835 in McNab who m Marion Gilchrist (shown on the McIntyre stone).
      2. Elizabeth Stewart, b 1768
      3. Alexander Stewart, b 1770 who had premarital relations with Margaret Ferguson and had:
        1. James Stewart, b 1798 who m 1827 to Margaret Stewart and immigrated to Horton in 1830.
      4. Margaret Stewart, b 1775 and m 1798 to Duncan McIntyre, and had several children the eldest of which was:
        1. Peter McIntyre, b 1798 (of the McIntyre stone)
      5. Duncan Stewart, b 1778
      6. Robert Stewart, b 1781, shepherd who moved to Campbelltown and later to Horton, m 1812 to Mary McGregor and had several children in Comrie and Campbelltown, including:
        7. John Robert Stewart, b 1831 who m Margaret McLaren (noted above)


Honestly, given the number of cousins of this family who were pioneers in Renfrew, I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually find even more families in Renfrew who descend from Donald Stewart in Ardviech and Kichp!

At the bottom of the Dalveich page you'll see a tree for the McIntyre family. They intermarried with our Stewarts so often that I've included their family tree just to help people sort out the interconnections.

The Dalveich page and the on-line database don't have all these updates showing yet as I'm still entering several of them, having just discerned them from your recent posts.

Does that clear it up?

If you have any other questions about your Dalveich ancestry, please don't hesitate to ask. It's my own clan and I'm happy to go on and on and on about it! Smile

============================
Margaret Stewart (wife of James Stewart who came to Horton in 1830) is descended from Donald Stewart in Edinample (though we're still awaiting the book author's comments on this). These Stewarts are said to descend from the Stewarts of Druimcharry, a cadet branch of the Stewarts of Atholl -- no relation at all to the Balquhidder Stewarts. Although Donald Stewart in Edinample and Donald Stewart in Kichp were neighbours and probably almost exactly the same age -- just to confuse things even more!
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doug

Just had a look at the MacLarens on the McIntyre stone. Turns out they are also from the same area. They appear to trace back to a Robert McLaren and Margaret McLaren who lived in Glen Ogle (m 1791 in Comrie, ten children born in Glenogle). Glen Ogle is adjacent to Glen Beich where Dalveich, Ardveich and Carnlia are located.

It looks like the whole west end of Loch Earn uprooted and moved to eastern Ontario! Laughing

Ryk
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In the Mcintyre family there was a family that lived close to Peter and John McIntyre in Scotland
She was a widow he maiden name was Rachael McGregor, She had four children, Duncan, Gregor, Mary and Catherine.

Sorry, I forgot to reply to this earlier.

This is the family of John McIntyre and Rachel McGregor. Their children are shown in the IGI as being born in Balquhidder and Comrie, so they're definitely from the same area. I don't have transcriptions on their births so I can't say where in the parishes they were residing.

I've only traced the McIntyres back to Patrick McIntyre who married in 1772 to Catharine King (grandparents of Peter McIntyre on the stone) and the John McIntyre who married Rachel McGregor appears NOT to be descended from that branch, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if it turns out they're cousins. The McIntyres fall outside the scope of the Stewarts of Balquhidder research project, however, the Carnlia McIntyres intermarried so often with the Ardveich Stewarts that it became helpful to trace part of their family just to sort everyone out. However, I'm not actively researching that family.

Quote:
Duncan m Catherine ? and had 6 children. They also had a maid Margaret Stewart 22 born in Argyllshire

Ah, yes, I forgot about Margaret. She appears to be the daughter of Robert Stewart and Mary McGregor noted above. She's a sister to John Robert Stewart. And she was working as a servant to Duncan McIntyre in Horton in 1851, but I hadn't traced which Duncan McIntyre that might be. You believe him to be one of the sons of widow Rachel McGregor?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
John Robert Stewart who married Margaret McLaren in Pakenham (shown a few posts above) is descended from John Dubh Mhor Stewart. But I've lost track of how his family fits into your mother's tree. Can you remind me how they are related to the descendants of James and Margaret?
My mothers tree is made up of two primary families, the Mclarens and Stewarts. Alexander Stewart 1827-1902 eldest son of Margaret and James, married Elizabeth Mclaren, her sister Margaret Mclaren married John R Stewart. So Alexandre and John were brothers in law
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:38 pm    Post subject: (wife of James Stewart who came to Horton in 1830) Reply with quote

Quote:
Margaret Stewart (wife of James Stewart who came to Horton in 1830) is descended from Donald Stewart in Edinample (though we're still awaiting the book author's comments on this).

here is the response from the books author..no definative proof of anything...?

Quote:
My late mother-in-law, Margaret Stewart McCuaig, was a great granddaughter of Daniel Stewart, page 75, who was a brother of Mrs James Stewart, p. 182.

Margaret's cousin, the late James Lee, (whose mother was a Stewart) did a great deal of research during trips to Scotland, in the pre-internet days. He also referred to a journal, kept by 'Grandpa' Stewart. Part of the info in that stated that when our Stewarts first came to Renfrew County they stayed with the 2nd line Stewarts i.e. the Margaret Stewart you are looking at. I'm not sure which of these resources Jay used when giving the names of (Horton) Margaret's grandparents.

Sorry I can't supply chapter and verse. I know that these Stewarts are a real problem to sort out, when they kept using the same small fund of first names. Our Stewarts settled here in Admaston, on the farm kitty-corner to my present property.

Carol
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