Ryk Brown's Genealogy Forum

[RykBrown]

[Continuing a conversation started via email with David Drake prior to this forum going on-line. I know it's strange to start a thread in the middle of a conversation, but I'm sure other readers will catch on quickly. The conversation pertains to the descendants of George Haddlesay of Skirpenbeck, Yorkshire, England, who married Mary Beal in 1791 in York, Yorkshire.]

David

Ahh, vacation is wonderful for catching up on genealogy! I now have all your data entered into FTM, so I hope to update the Haddlesay web page later this weekend.

Subsequent to my last email -- I've been doing some more digging and came across a most bizarre finding. I sent you the reference for Sarah Haddlesay from the 1841 census. Well, I had another look at the image to see if any of her neighbours rang any bells, and I noticed that she's not actually residing on her own property. The three people she is listed with are all farm servants for another family. The original image clearly shows that they are living at the house of the farming family. But the way it's indexed at Ancestry.com makes it appear falsely like there are two residences. The amazing thing is that the family Sarah is residing with is:

William Horsley, 50, farmer
Ann, 49, wife (EXACTLY the right age for Ann Haddlesay!!!!)
George, 21
William, 19 (smudged)
Matthew, 17
John, 16
Mary, 14
Richard, 10
Elizabeth, 8
Ellen, 6

They are residing in Scrayingham, Yorkshire (with all shown as born in Yorkshire). Scrayingham is the same place where three of Ann's brother, George Jr's children were born in the 1830s.

I am convinced that this is Ann Haddlesay and her husband! So how in the world could he have died in Canada in 1833???? It would appear that news of his demise has been greatly exaggurated!

The obit was sent to me three years ago by Brian Haddlesay, one of the group of researchers who have been researching the Haddlesay name for over thirty years. I read the obit again, more carefully this time. It says, "2 JAN 1833, killed on Christmas Day, by the fall of a tree while chopping timber in West Gwillimbury, William Hosley, lately from England, who moved to this land about a month since. He leaves a widow (Anne Haddlesay) and three children."

First, I note his name is HOSELY with no R, not HORSLEY. Second, I note that the reference to Anne Haddlesay is in parentheses. Now I wonder, whose parentheses are these? Are they from the original obit? Or are they a later interpolation by Brian, or whomever he received the data from? It would be quite odd to have a wife's name in an obit shown in parentheses; odd too that her maiden name is given instead of her married name (if it's a quote from the actual obit). I think the parenthetical reference is not from the original obit, but is a later researcher's insertion -- either Brian or someone else. I hope to invite Brian to join us on this forum, so perhaps he can shed some light on the subject.

It has long bothered me that this alleged Anne Haddlesay was living in West Gwillimbury which is nowhere near either Brant County where Ellen Haddlesay lived, or Etobicoke where James Haddlesay was married.

I think the obit IS for William HOSELY, who is NOT our William Horsley who married Ann Haddlesay. I think "our" William and Ann remained in Yorkshire and did not come to Canada at all.

The Horsely family we find in 1841 above are a perfect match for "our" Ann. They have Ann's sister Sarah living with them. They have a son named George, presumably named after Ann's father, George Haddlesay (Sr), and they are living in the same village that George Haddlesay Jr was living in as late as ca. 1832.

I've also been able to find most of these Horsely children's births in the IGI. Granted the mother is given only as "Ann" with no surname which confirms nothing, but they fit chronologically with "our" William Horsely and Ann Haddlesay being married in 1815, and all the IGI births are shown in Scrayingham.

So, now it would appear that the only Haddlesay children of this family who came to Canada were James and Elleanor (with her husband William Richardson) -- with Elleanor and her husband being the first. And Elizabeth did not come until much later, after 1851, when she married her late sister's widower. ALL the remaining children of this family appear to have remained in England.

I look forward to your thoughts (and the thoughts of any other Haddlesay researchers who may be reading this).

Ryk

[david drake]

Ryk,

Mailing received with very much interest.

I think that you are spot on but suppose must wait for a response from Brian re the obit. that he sent you. The mention of a nee (ie Haddlesay) name in the obit does look out of the ordinary and I wonder if there was an Ann Haddlesay in Canada about that time. IF SO then this would be odd too as we already know that the name is a rare one.

Subsequent to your mailing I too found the 1841 census entry to which you refer (after a struggle with Ancestry!) and then found Ann in 1851, by now a widow, farming Pasture Farm in Scrayingham with unmarried children Matthew, John, Mary Ann, Ellen and Elizabeth (coincidentally they had a Robert Kirby (15) as a farm servant). Richard and William were working in shops in nearby York. No sign of George!

In 1861 Matthew and John were still with mother Ann on an unnamed farm (still Pasture?) although by then Matthew is said to be the head.
Richard is still in York but I found William, now married as a professer of music (would you believe?) in Hulme, over the Pennines in Manchester.

In 1871 I could only find a now married (wondered where the farm was going to end up) Matthew still at Pasture Farm. All the other children of William and Ann (including our musician) are still at large.

I did promise to have a look at the Skirpenbeck registers in a previous mailing and headed off to the Leeds Library the other week to do that. Unfortunately at Leeds they don't have all Yorkshire's PR's and Skirpenbeck was one of those that was missing! They will be at York and I will someday or other get out there but it may be weeks ahead.

Keep in touch especially wehn Brian has had his say. I suppose it shows that information from another source should never be trusted 100% although I'm sure that we are all guilty on occasions of making assumptions in good faith-so having someone else view and comment openly on our findings is useful.

Regards to you Ryk and any other viewers,


David

[RykBrown]

[RykBrown]

I found Richard Horsely in 1851 residing in St. Dennis, York, Yorkshire, England working as an apprentice to Richard Brown (no relation to me), a commercial teacher.
_________________
Ryk Brown
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Descendant of...well, all of these families, except for the ones that my wife is descended from, save for the ones we share in common...Eek! I married my cousin!

[david drake]

Ryk,

Small piece of extra info. for you. In Leeds Library there is an index of memorial inscriptions for several Yorkshire parishes including Scrayingham. Amongst them are the following, all now confirmed as part of our Horsleys (and a Kirby): -
SCRAYINGHAM
Grave 108
To the memory of/Nathaniel Kirby and his wife Mary/he died 27th November 1818/aged 77 years/she died 20th February 1819/aged 70 years/both old and young/O death must yield to thee/And day by day they powerful works we see/In vain the tear in vain the heartfelt sigh/All that are born to live are bound to die/

PR 1818 Nov 29th Nathaniel Kirby aged 75
PR 1819 Feb 22nd Mary Kirby aged 70

Grave 104. In memory/of the late/William Horsley/of this parish/who died 1st March 1851/aged 62 years/here rests a father and a friend/whose soul to good was o'er inclined/his love so great did wide extend/embracing firm all human kind/his hand with fervent love would press/his eyes with sweet affection shine/his feeling heart whose pure caress/still makes him round the heart entwine/such love will virtue ever own/and bless with an immortal crown

Grave 103 In Memory of/the late John Horsley/of Scrayingham/who died 14th July 1862/aged 37 years/Looking for that blessed hope/and the/glorious appearing of the great God/and our Saviour Jesus Christ/
PR July 17th 1862 John Horsley, Scrayingham (37)

Grave 102 In memory of/the late Richard Horsley/of York/who died 5th/February 1865/aged 34 years/Blessed are the dead/Which die in the Lord/Even so saith the Spirit/For they rest from their labours

PR Feb 8 1865 Richard Horsley, York (34)

Thought you might like the inscriptional quotes.

Didn't find anything for Ann Horsley (nee Haddlesay) or any of her other children,who are either buried in Scrayingham in an unmarked grave)or one whose inscription has eroded) or in another parish.


Regards,

David

[Chris Haddlesey]

Hello,

My name is Chris Haddlesey, grandson of Brian Haddlesey. My grandfather has been researching our family's history for decades, and it's likely that he's the Brian you are talking about (though our branch of the family tree hasn't spelt our surname as 'Haddlesay' since the 16th century). Have you heard from him yet concerning the questions that you have? If not, I could ask him and try to get back to you. I hope you are still using this forum...

-Chris