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Hello all! Hope someone can help me!

 
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Vanessa
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:21 am    Post subject: Hello all! Hope someone can help me! Reply with quote

I've been researching my McGregor family tree and have come across a Margaret Stewart, born in 1806 who married John McGregor. The couple plus their two children, Isabella and Janet, were residing in Kilmadock in the 1851 census, before they moved to Australia in 1852. I think I have Margaret's birth record which says that her parents names were Alex Stewart and Janet Stewart and that she was born in Balquhidder. Is anyone researching this family? I'm not sure how to find more about her father Alex Stewart. Would love more info if anyone has any!
Thanks, Vanessa.
P.S. Great website you have here!
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Ryk
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vanessa

Welcome to the clan! Yes indeed someone here is researching this family. In fact *I* am researching this family and so is our cousin Don Walker. You belong specifically to the Stewarts of Carnlia, line 7 of the Stewarts of Dalveich and Branch VII of the Stewarts of Ardvorlich. This also happens to be my own line.

Your Margaret Stewart was born in Carnlia and baptized 14 MAY 1806 in Balquhidder parish, daughter of Alexander Stewart in Carnlia and his wife Janet Stewart of Lochearnside. We believe Alexander and Janet were cousins with Janet coming from a sub-line who resided at Moral. Janet's brother, Robert Stewart, was my direct ancestor.

You can find detailed information on this family here:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rykbrown/stewart_of_dalveich.htm
You'll find your specific branch in the Table of Contents as "Line 7 - The Stewarts in Carnlia, Glentarken and Moral."

Through both Alexander and his wife Janet you descend from John Dubh Mhor Stewart of Dalveich, a bastard son of Maj. James Beag Stewart, 2nd of Ardvorlich. There is a fascinating history to read on the page I've linked above. Have a read through it and I would be happy to answer any questions you might have.

We had no knowledge of Margaret's later whereabouts after birth so I would also be grateful if you could provide us with any more information you have on her marriage to John McGregor and their children and their move to Australia.

I would also be interested in knowing how you were able to confirm the 1806 birth as your connection to this family hinges on the validity of that birth.

I look forward to continuing this conversation with you.

Ryk
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Descendant of the Stewarts of Dalveich (Ardvorlich)
Sliochd Iain Dubh Mhor
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Vanessa
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ryk,
Wow! Thanks! You've got so much amazing information here! It will probably take me a while to digest it all but it looks as though my family tree search isn't at a dead end like i'd previously thought. I'm sure to get back to you with questions as I sift through it all! And it's nice to meet a fellow distant relative along the way Very Happy
Ok, as far as linking the Margaret Stewart in my family to your 1806 Margaret, I have a few clues. The Margaret Stewart in my family is my great great great great grandmother (I think I have enough greats in there!). To begin with, I have her death certificate which tells me that she was 72 when she died in 1879, which calculates as within a year of 1806. She was married to John McGregor. She had three children, Mary, Isabella and Janet. Her parents were Alexander Stewart and "Janet Stewart formerly Stewart" (the "formerly" didn't make sense until you mentioned the cousin possibility). It also says that she was born in Balquhidder and had lived in Australia for 26 years.
Next I have shipping records for the arrival of John, Margaret, Mary, Janet and Isabella in Australia on the ship called "Marmion". They arrived in 1852 in Victoria, Australia.
Then I have a census record for the 1851 Scottish census placing John, Margaret, Janet and Isabella in Kilmadock, all of their ages match up with those that came to Australia.
I have an 1845 parish register noting the marriage of John McGregor and Margaret Stewart in his parish of St Ninians.
Lastly I have found the parish record for Margaret's baptism in Balquhidder to parents Alex and Janet Stewart in 1806.
The pieces all fit pretty nicely I think, but if you can see any gaping holes please point them out! I'm new to the family history research and am only just getting the hang of it. If you would like to see the uploaded certificates I have them all on the Ancestry website. Will give you details if you are interested.
Please let me know your thoughts and i'll get stuck into filling out Margaret's tree!!
Thanks a lot for your help,
Vanessa
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Ryk
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vanessa

That's a solid pile of evidence you have there. Nice work. Yes, I think you have certainly proved you have the right Margaret.

When you've had a chance to read through all the information I gave you then I would be pleased to answer your questions or just hear your thoughts.

Ryk
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Sliochd Iain Dubh Mhor
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Vanessa
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ryk!
Sorry it's taken me so long to reply, i've been really busy but have recently gotten back to the tree. There is so much information and it's all so interesting! I keep getting caught up in stories and losing track of time Smile Since tracing through the individuals i've realised that i'm very proud of being a part of this line, its truly an amazing lot of people. I'll be back in here over the next few weeks with all my questions and ideas Smile
Thanks again for your help, it helped me break through a wall!
Vanessa.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nay worries, Vanessa, we all have a life outside genealogy! That's why it sometimes takes me a couple of weeks to reply to some of the postings here. Whenever you get back to your questions, we'll be around to try to answer them.
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Sliochd Iain Dubh Mhor
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ryk!
I managed to get myself a copy of Gordon McGregor's The Landed Families of Strathearn - with some difficulty (it's hard to find!!). It's an amazing book. From John Stewart - son of James, it breaks off and just says that Robert descended from him.. I wasn't sure how to fit this in unless it meant the Robert that I have below in my tree. I see that you have used the walker family history papers to extend the timeline down a bit. The Walker stuff looks amazing and it looks like you did some detective work to verify which families he was referring to. I'm still getting my head around that part.
I wanted to run by you something in my tree. So my several great grandparents Alexander and Janet Stewart (parents of Margaret 1806), Alexander's father was Donald, and Donalds father was Alexander (the son of Black John). Janet's father was John, Johns father was Robert, Robert's father was Alexander (the son of Black John). So there is an extra generation in Janet's line. I wanted to check firstly, is the extra generation right? Secondly, did alexander have at least two sons, Donald and Robert? Or have I made an error somewhere?
Thanks!!!!
Vanessa Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vanessa wrote:
Hi Ryk!
I managed to get myself a copy of Gordon McGregor's The Landed Families of Strathearn - with some difficulty (it's hard to find!!). It's an amazing book.


Yes it is. Gordon is a brilliant researcher.

Quote:
From John Stewart - son of James, it breaks off and just says that Robert descended from him.. I wasn't sure how to fit this in unless it meant the Robert that I have below in my tree.


That's correct. Gordon's primary interest is the main branches of these families. It's beyond the scope of his project to trace every single descendant line in its entirety. For our particular family in Dalveich, Gordon came across the contract of wadset for Robert in Ardveich in 1733 and merely listed him as a descendant of undetermined connection.

We believe this Robert to be Robert Stewart in Glenbeich and Ardveich, b about 1678, presently accounted as 6th son of John Dubh Mhor Stewart. We further believe him to be the father of both James Ross Stewart in Ardveich, ancestor of Line 5, and of Alexander Stewart in Ardveich, ancestor of Line 6.

As this branch is of primary interest to those of our group who descend from it, we have the ability to commit more time and detail to this branch. But Gordon and I continue to share information on all these families as we find it.

Quote:
I see that you have used the Walker family history papers to extend the timeline down a bit. The Walker stuff looks amazing and it looks like you did some detective work to verify which families he was referring to. I'm still getting my head around that part.

The Walker tree is one of several resources we have used for this family. And, yes, it is a very valuable one. Our primary resource remains Stewarts of the South which gives us a fuller picture of the whole clan, but does not give us an accurate timeline. The Walker tree provides a much narrower view of one particular branch, but gives us a more reliable timeline. When we combine both of those along with OPR data and testaments and land transfers then we're able to piece together a more detailed picture of the Dalveich Stewarts. However, you'll note on our web page that there are some challenges in trying to reconcile the Walker tree with the other sources -- they don't match up perfectly. Therefore we know there are errors in there somewhere. Whether those errors are in the Walker tree itself, or our interpretation of it, or in the other sources, or in our comparison of those sources, or otherwise, we don't know. So we cannot claim absolute certainty on the accuracy of this family.

What you can count on is that this family is descended from John Dubh Mhor Stewart (Black John) as that is verified by more than one source. However the exact descent is open to interpretation and challenge.

Quote:
I wanted to run by you something in my tree. So my several great grandparents Alexander and Janet Stewart (parents of Margaret 1806), Alexander's father was Donald, and Donalds father was Alexander (the son of Black John). Janet's father was John, Johns father was Robert, Robert's father was Alexander (the son of Black John). So there is an extra generation in Janet's line. I wanted to check firstly, is the extra generation right?

Correct. Assuming our present accounting of this family is correct then, yes, you have correctly understood the line of your ancestors. Yes, Alexander and Janet were cousins, though one generation removed from each other. So, Janet's father, Robert, would have been Alexander's first cousin. And Janet herself would have been first-cousin-once-removed to her husband, Alexander.

Quote:
Secondly, did alexander have at least two sons, Donald and Robert? Or have I made an error somewhere?

No you have not made an error. You are correct. Our current interpretation of the evidence indicates that Alexander had at least two sons, namely Robert and Donald. As the traditional naming pattern was pretty strictly adhered to in this area and time then we can be fairly certain that Alexander would have had an eldest son whom he would have named John after his father. We have no evidence to verify this John existed and we have no evidence of any descendants. He is merely theoretical at this point, but I would consider him highly probable. Whether he died young, never married, or emigrated leaving no record, or never existed at all...who knows?

Thus we show Alexander as the father of:
1. "John" theoretically born ca. 1695
2. Robert, b Nov 1697
3. Donald, b 1720

Obviously there's an immediate problem here. There's a 23 year gap between Robert and Donald. This reflects the challenges I mentioned above. Either we're missing a generation here, or Alexander had another 8-10 children in the middle for whom we have no record (presumabely daughters) or the Walker Tree has an error in it. We don't know what the error is, but it's unlikely that the accountine I've just given you above is 100% correct.

I hope that's helpful for you.

Slainte
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Ryk
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