Stewarts of Balquhidder

[Belinda]

Hi Ryk

You said

[Ryk]

Belinda

Thank you for sharing that. What a most enjoyable read. And, yes, I too think you have it right.

I'm really glad you posted this story here. I hope it can be helpful for other researchers as an example of how to interpret family traditions. Like you, I have found most of the stories handed down to me about my own ancestry were mostly correct. They were often out by a generation or transposed names or locations -- but they were all based on an essential truth. But I haven't found any that were utterly false.

You've helped illustrate how family traditions should not be relied upon to be entirely accurate but they often contain vital clues as to where to look for the correct answers and even the wildest traditions should never be discarded out of hand.

Thanks
Ryk
_________________
Ryk Brown
Descendant of the Stewarts of Dalveich (Ardvorlich)
Sliochd Iain Dubh Mhor

[Belinda]

Ryk said

[Belinda]

Having formed a new theory about the lower end of my Stewart tree in Brackland (the cousin question), I thought it might be time to revisit the top end of the tree in another attempt to find the ancestors of John Stewart in Brackland, father of the various lines of Brackland Stewarts, and his descent from the Gartnafuaran family.

My two previous theories involved John being the son of Patrick McAndrew Stewart in Blairgarry, or the son of Patrick Stewart and Janet NcLaren in Comrie, but neither has much appeal. Now I've come up with another possibility, though it also has flaws.

I found a baptismal record in Kilmadock parish (very hard to read, like all the early Scottish PRs) as follows:
John Stewart, bapt 13 July 1701, son of Patrick Stewart and Mary McA (?). Mother's name nearly illegible, the IGI transcribed it as McArie. Searching for other children from this couple I found:
James Stewart, bapt 3 May 1696, son of Patrick Stewart and Marrion McCartur in Seatravid (?).
There is also a later entry for
(blank) Stewart, son of Patrick Stewart and Janet Buchanan, bapt 10 Oct 1712. These are the only children of a Patrick Stewart baptised in Kilmadock parish between 1680 and 1720.

I think the first two births are from the same couple, and I think John, bapt 1701, might be John Stewart in Brackland. The worst problem is that this date makes him under 15 when his first child was baptised, but there could be reasons for that. What makes me think it could be him is (a) the locality in Kilmadock (the next parish to Callander and the Brackland farms lay right on the parish boundary), and (b) his mother's name, which might be McCartur or McArthur, as several of his sons married McArthur girls.

There's also the possibility that I have found the birth of his father Patrick Stewart, as there's a baptism, recorded in Kilmadock parish, of Patrick Stewart, bapt 6 Feb 1670, father Donald Stewart (mother not named - usual at this period) "in Calander". Donald is a favourite name in this family and the locality is about right. Unfortunately there are no baptisms recorded for a Patrick Stewart in KIlmadock parish at any time before this date. So there we stick again.

The trouble is that when we get back to known Gartnafuaran Stewarts there is a big gap in the records, and there are not many Patricks in the known Gartnafuaran line (it tends to be a Glenbuckie name, except for the Ledcriech lot). There is one interesting record in Balquhidder, where there's a baptism of Janet Stewart, 21 May 1706, dau of Patrick Stewart in Gartnafuaran. I can't help wondering if he's the same Patrick Stewart as the man in Kilmadock parish, and he might even have married a second time, to Janet Buchanan (see the Kilmadock entry for an unnamed son born to this couple in 1712), and this might be their daughter.

It's all pretty tenuouis, but food for thought.

Belinda

[Jared]

I haven't been visiting the Balquhidder board for the past few weeks, so I've only this morning caught myself up on this discussion of Belinda's ancestors. All I have to say is that it's very pleasing to find so much progress being made, and so many promising conjectures being made. Ryk's fresh interpretation of what SOTS has to say about the Stuiartich a-Bhaid has opened up some great possibilities of accounting for the junior branchs of the Gartnafuaran.

I've also taken a look at Ryk's update of the Gartnafuaran page, adding the Portnellan and Brackland branches, and as usual it's very impressive.
_________________
Descendant of the Stewarts of Londonderry, N.H., a cadet branch of the Stewarts of Gartnafuaran

[Belinda]

I’ve been rethinking the possible ancestry of John Stewart in Wester Brackland and looking at charts of his children and their children in a new attempt to find his ancestral line. The names can be summarized as follows:

John Stewart’s first wife was Elizabeth McLaran, and their children were Elizabeth b 1715, Patrick 1717, Janet 1718, Donald 1719 and Walter 1721. John then married Catherine McRuer as his second wife, and had Catherine b 1726, James 1728, Janet 1730 and Alexander 1732.

Patrick’s children were John, Janet, James, Donald, Donald, Elisabeth, Patrick, Christian (from wife Margaret McArthur, her parents being John McArthur and Janet Muschet).

Donald’s children were Mary, James, John, Donald, Patrick, Robert (from wife Janet McBeath, parents Patrick McBeath and Christian Ferguson)

Walter’s children were Elizabeth, John, Patrick, James, Alexander, Patrick, David, Christian, Patrick, Jean, Margaret, Elisabeth (from wife Christian McArthur, parents John McArthur and Janet King).

James’s children were John, Peter, Janet and James (from wife Janet McArthur, parents John McArthur and Janet King).

Alexander had an illegitimate son called Duncan by a McIntyre or Maclaran.

It occurred to me that it was odd that John Stewart in Wester Brackland didn’t have a son named John. If John’s own father was called John, he would be expected to call his first son John. Such son may not have been recorded, either because he wasn’t baptized (unlikely), or the baptism happened before records began (in whatever parish) or the child had been baptized in Kilamdock parish, but the record is now illegible. So could I find a John, son of John, born about 1680 in Kilmadock parish? Yes I could!

John Stewart and Helen MacFarlane had three children baptized in Kilmadock about the right period. They were Walter b 1678, John b 1682 and Jonet 1683. Following the usual scheme I went looking for a John, son of Walter, a generation earlier, and I found another possible family.

We are back to the 1650s when mothers were not named in the Kilmadock register, but Walter Stewart had the following children: Elspett b 1646, Robert 1647, Marie 1648, Alexander 1650, Johne and Christan 1651 (bapt same day). This looks very promising, as these are traditional Gartnafuaran Stewart names and we are getting well back in time.

One of my early theories (back several years ago now) was that this family actually represented that of Walter Stewart, 7th Laird of Gartnafuaran. However Jared had researched his ancestral family most meticulously, and the birth dates didn’t quite fit. My latest theory is that this Walter is probably the son of Robert Dhu Mor, who was the son of Alexander 5th of Gartnafuaran, and, so he’s Walter the 7th Lairds’ first cousin.

Robert Dhu Mor has been postulated as the patriarch of Gartnafuaran Branch III, the Sliochd Rob Duibh Mhoir, "Descendants of Big Black Rob" via an unknown son, possibly called Duncan. I now propose that Gartnafuaran Branch VIII, Clan Stuirtaich Chireu, descends from another (presumably younger) son of Rob, namely Walter.

This is all highly speculative, but it’s seems a reasonable conclusion from minimal data.

Belinda



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[Ryk]

Well done Belinda!

I think you make a very plausible and viable case here. I've been wondering for a while about the possibility of an earlier son John who may have predated records. I think you've found an excellent candidate for such a John.

My questions to you on this are:

1. Do the early Kilmadock baptisms that you've named above give a location within Kilmadock? If so, that information could help us narrow down which family these births belong to.

2. Are there any other families from Stewarts of the South for whom John Stewart and Helen McFarlane or the earlier Walter Stewart and their respective children could also fit? If you can identify other potential matches and find reasons to exclude them, then it makes your case stronger.

Ryk
_________________
Ryk Brown
Descendant of the Stewarts of Dalveich (Ardvorlich)
Sliochd Iain Dubh Mhor

[Ryk]

I've just finished updating the Gartnafuaran VIII page with your new theory. Having mapped it out and been able to look at it with some distance, I have to say that onomastically and chronologically it seems to work very, very well.

My only hesitation with it is the fact that we're finding these births in Kilmadock, not Callander. Of course I know we won't find them in Callander because the Callander OPR doesn't go back as far. That means we're at risk of liking these birth records simply because they exist, rather than because the real ones don't exist.

The Brackland/Bracklinn properties are all within Callander parish. I acknowledge that the border between Callander and Kilmadock runs right along the side of the Easter Brackland farm and as a bordering property we might not be surprised to find baptisms in the neighbouring parish especially if the parish seat of the neighbouring parish happened to be closer. But that's not the case here. The parish seat for Kilmadock is Doune. The parish seat for Callander is Callander village. And Callander village is significantly closer to the Brackland properties than Doune is.

Rob Duibh Mhor resided at Wester Ardchullary in Strathyre. Ardchullary is in Callander parish but is also a border property sitting on the border of Callander and Balquhidder parishes.

Thus we can assume that Rob's children were born at Ardchullary in Strathyre in Callander parish. Given the geography here, I think your suggestion that the Brackland families descend from a family in Ardchullary is quite reasonable, perhaps even compelling. However, if it was the case then we should expect to find the intervening generations in Callander parish, not in Kilmadock. As such, for the theory in whole to be compelling one would need to construct an argument as to why Walter and his children are found in Kilmadock instead of Callander. The default would be to expect Walter and his children to be in Callander where no records existed until the 18th century. Thus we should expect to find no records of the intervening generations and it should be an unexpected surprise to find them in Kilmadock. Such a surprise needs to be justified. And I don't think we could make a case that Walter and his children went to Kilmadock for their baptisms simply because Kilmadock had a register and Callander did not. So, I think that's a flaw that needs to be worked through.

Another flaw I just noticed is chronology. We presently suggest that Rob Duibh Mhor was born ca 1605 in Gartnafuaran and his suggested children of Alexander and Duncan were born ca 1635-1640. Your Walter is shown having his first child in 1646 which means he could have been born no later than 1620. That would either make Walter the eldest son and thus the senior of the two lines (vs Branch III) or would require us to drastically alter our suggested chronology for Branch III. Or we would have to suggest that Walter was illegitimate. Even still we'd have to push Rob Duibh Mhor's birth back at least a decade to be viable, and then we get into trouble with our suggested chronology of Alexander 5th Gartnafuaran. I grant you that we're dealing almost entirely with estimated dates here so there's definitely some margin for error and adjustment, but it would still take quite a bit of recalculating to make Walter fit as a son of Rob Duibh Mhor.

Ryk
_________________
Ryk Brown
Descendant of the Stewarts of Dalveich (Ardvorlich)
Sliochd Iain Dubh Mhor

[Belinda]

[Belinda]

[Ryk]

Belinda

Again, thank you for all the work you've done in compiling the early Kilmadock records. (I also thanked you for this under the "Documents and Sources" thread.) I totally understand the difficulties and frustrations with the very early documents -- the difficulty in reading them and more frustratingly, the sparse information. It makes you want to throttle the session clerk begging for more information.

After further review of the above, I do find myself doubtful for the reasons I've mentioned above that the Kilmadock births you've identified further above belong to your Brackland predecessors. But I would be most interested in your further thoughts on my comments above.

Ryk
_________________
Ryk Brown
Descendant of the Stewarts of Dalveich (Ardvorlich)
Sliochd Iain Dubh Mhor

[Belinda]

Hi Ryk

I appreciate your analysis of the problems associated with my latest theory, and, alas, I think you are probably correct. I'm thrashing around in the dark here, and trying to make bricks with a minimum of straw. It's always useful to have another pair of eyes and a brain have a look at the facts to put things in perspective.

The really INFURIATING fact is that I don't know where any of these Stewarts lived in Kilmadock parish. If I did I might be able to refute your well considered arguments, but as things stand, I can't.

I don't believe that the fact that they apparently baptised their children in Kilmadock instead of Callander parish is an insuperable obstacle. I 've probaby told you about my Grahams of Glenny who lived on the border of the parishes of Port of Menteith and Aberfoyle (just along the road from Callander), and married, baptised and buried their relatives in either parish as the spirit moved them, or according to which minister they were on terms with at the time. I don't think the bulk of the population found it so easy to switch parishes like this, but the Lairds certainly did, and their children might have assumed a similar degree of independance.

However, the simplest answer to my problem is that the records do not exist because the families lived in Callander, and the Callender parish records have not survived from the period before 1710.

Bother Rob Dhu Mor. How dare he be born when he was. I really thought that those lovely families in Kilmadock with all those Gartnafuaran Stewart names might really fit as his descendants, and now you point out how difficult it is to reconcile the dates.

Oh woe, woe, and thrice woe!!!!

Belinda

[Ryk]

LOL! Trust me, I share your frustrations as I have experience the same thing with my own line in Comrie. The Comrie records don't begin until 1695. My only advantage over your Brackland line is that at least Stewarts of the South gave the progenitor. But I still have about a hundred years in between where all I can do is guess.

I think your suggestion of descent from Rob Dubh Mor is still reasonable. And your suggestion that families might have gone to a more distant parish because they got on better with the minister is something I never considered (and, given my own experiences, I probably should have thought of that). But I think the chronology still hangs us on this one.

You can always hope for an elusive family bible!

Ryk
_________________
Ryk Brown
Descendant of the Stewarts of Dalveich (Ardvorlich)
Sliochd Iain Dubh Mhor

[Belinda]

Hi Ryk